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Regardless of the impressive credentials on your resumé or any technical skills you’ve mastered, your effectiveness in life depends largely on the quality of your conversations.
That may seem to be a bold statement. But think about it. No matter how you define it, your “success” at home and in the workplace is a product of how you interact with other humans. And the engine of that interaction is conversation.
So, doesn’t it make sense that we pay special attention to the effects of our talking and listening habits?
Chuck Wisner thinks so, and he offers insightful tips in THE ART OF CONSCIOUS CONVERSATIONS: Transforming How We Talk, Listen, and Interact.
He’s been a senior mediator with the Harvard Law Mediation Program and a specialist in organizational learning and transformational leadership with MIT’s Center for Organizational Learning. His clients include senior teams at Google, Ford, DTE Energy, PSEG, Toyota, and Shell.
Wisner provides practical guidance on how to improve our conversations by approaching them with curiosity and honest introspection.
Rodger Dean Duncan: You rightly say that many conversations are hampered by the stories people tell themselves about themselves and about others. Give us a couple of examples.
Chuck Wisner: We enter the workplace with our stories and egos about who we are as managers, directors, or executives. A senior director I know at a high-tech company, holds a story that he is underappreciated and undervalued. His story affects his overall mood and how he interacts with senior leaders. Unchecked, he is resentful, and in turn, he is less assertive in offering his true capabilities and holds back from requesting a more significant role and support.
At home, our egos and stories are often at the root of disagreements or stressful conversations with our partners, children, or friends. A mom of two kids, artist, and wife of a successful executive, let’s call her Sylvia, carries a story of “I’m never quite good enough.” This story haunts her daily, quietly sowing doubt in her work as an artist. Ironically, her story keeps her from doing her best work.
Chuck Wisner
Duncan: How can people learn to challenge their own stories?
Wisner: Our incredibly fast brains consume billions of bits of information, including our senses, and synthesize it all to help us make sense of the world.
We live and breathe by our stories—some serve us well, while others can be devastating. The difficulty of challenging our stories lies in our attachments to them. Stories like, “I’ll never get the promotion I deserve.” Or, “My work won’t make it into this show” trigger us emotionally and limit what we do and how we act in the world. Our emotional reactions reflect our stories. The first step is to surface the story beneath our emotions, write them down and ask a few probing questions.
Our stories consist of facts and opinions. You need to be able to sort through both. What are the facts? What is undeniably true? “I said, she said.” Or “My body was shaking with fear!” Facing facts can be challenging, but they ground us in reality.
Our opinions are not the truth; they are a compilation of our complex and deeply personal beliefs. Unchecked emotional opinions can drive us mad.
Try this: With curiosity and non-judgment, write down your answers to the four questions below.
- What are my desires and wants? “I want my boss to recognize my work.”
- What are my concerns about the future? “Without a promotion, this year I am doomed.”
- Are there issues of authority at play? “I have no power to make the decision.”
- What are my standards behind my opinion? “Fairness and transparency are what I expect.”
What we learn from these four questions reveals our deeper thinking and helps us reconsider, reframe, or reject a story that is not serving us well.
Duncan: What seem to be the most common reasons some everyday conversations turn out unsatisfactory for one or both participants?
Wisner: Conversations move at a fast clip. We enter meetings with our stories and are trained to advocate for our position and defend it. I liken this pattern to being in a conversation with a closed fist and an attitude that is defensive, insincere, and closed-minded, “I know I am right about this, and I am the expert!” Our dissatisfaction in conversations is rooted in misunderstandings and miscommunications. We rarely take the time to unlock our fists so with an open hand we can reveal our thinking (desires, concerns, standards) and ask questions to understand other perspectives better.
Duncan: It’s likely safe to say that most people are not as good at listening as they think they are. What do you see as the key to truly effective listening?
Wisner: Believing our stories as the truth and our patterns of defending them override our ability to listen and absorb other perspectives. When we think we are attentively hearing, our fast minds are readying our defensive or inquisitory response. Effective listening requires acknowledging that our stories are not the truth, and if we can hold them lightly, there will be space in our minds for receiving ideas and positions that are counter to our own.
Another common reason effective listening is problematic is that we are different from radio transmitting signals. Signal sent, signal received. Our brains interpret our words and body language in every interaction. What I hear isn’t what you said, and what I said is not what you heard.
Duncan: You quote William James as saying, “A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.” We certainly see daily examples of that in the public arena and media. How can people honestly notice this tendency in themselves, and then self-correct?
Wisner: The root of this tendency is our ego's attachment to our stories.
We have seen the pattern playing out in politics and the media where facts be damned; we stick to our story. Unconsciously, our stories and beliefs become our identity. Rather than accept the facts, we justify and rearrange things to protect ourselves. It takes intellectual curiosity and a good bit of courage to self-correct honestly. Facts should be our friends, and without can live in a fantasy land. With facts, we can find peace with reality and then inquire into our judgments. We can create a foundation with others and honestly consider similar or divergent desires, concerns, or standards.
Duncan: You talk about the power of saying no. Why is this so important for people to know how to do effectively?
Wisner: I had a teacher, Rafael Echeveria, who said, “A request without a possible no is not a request!” That stuck with me as it goes straight to power issues in conversations. Without a possible no, we are facing a demand.
Culturally, our default response to requests is a quick “yes,” or “sure, no problem.” We err on the side of politeness and saying “no” feels more confronting and combative. Yet, without it, we make promises we can’t keep and resent the power plays we face. A potential no response comes in handy when we must protect ourselves, set boundaries, or create clarity of what we can and can’t do.
Duncan: Closing the gap between what we’re thinking and what we’re saying aloud, you suggest, can lower our stress. How does that work?
Wisner: Our interactions are more complex than we believe. The things we say out loud and the unconscious things we are thinking or feeling inside create tension in a conversation.
Although we are often unaware of the private thoughts ruminating in our heads, they are honest reflections of our thinking and telegraphed by our bodies. Worries, judgments, fear, and disbelief get expressed in our bodies. In conversation, most of us have experienced hearing the words spoken while also picking up on subtle cues being broadcasted. If I say in a conversation, “Nice to see you,” while thinking, “Damn, I have to deal with her all day,” the gap is stressful because it is a barrier to making open and sincere connections. When we close the gap by processing our negative judgmental opinions, we bring our inner thoughts out of the dark and into the light, where open and honest conversations can happen. It’s not easy, but it’s worth the effort.
Duncan: What can leaders do to help create a culture of emotional—and conversational—safety in the workplace?
Wisner: First and foremost, leaders need to recognize the power of their voice. Inherent in any hierarchy are unconscious cultural patterns that impute high levels of authority to a leader’s words. They may believe they are simply stating their opinion, “That was a stupid idea,” while others hear/feel, “Uh-oh, I am in hot water!” Or, a position or perspective put forth intensely can strike the fear of God into their direct reports. Consequently, a much-needed collaborative or creative conversation shuts down.
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Be more aware of how this dynamic plays out with your team and in your company.
Secondly, a common trap for leadership is believing they should have all the answers. Ironically, the farther a leader goes on the hierarchical ladder, the fewer answers they will have. The complexity of organizations and decisions require strategic and technical expertise. Be humble by letting your colleagues and direct reports know that you are the “know it all” and that you not only need but rely on their opinions and expertise.
Emotional and conversational safety can be established by the two practices above. Also, practice holding back your perspective and asking to hear from others first. A leader can model and encourage a culture where individuals feel safe to speak up, disagree, wrestle with challenging subjects, and eliminate groupthink, which in turn generates smarter decisions.
Duncan: Heavy reliance on texting—especially among younger generations—is doing nothing to enhance people’s conversation skills. What’s your suggestion for honing one’s talking and listening skills?
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Wisner: The drama of Covid delivered a stunning blow to mental models of the work world. Surprisingly, all involved recognized that virtual work was getting the job done and had many benefits. Unfortunately, virtual meetings, texting, slack, etc., are no substitute for in-person collaboration.
No matter the format, enhancing our conversational skills happens only when we take time to reflect on our unique patterns for communicating. If we text or communicate electronically with the bare minimum required, we are bound to create miscommunications.
Try asking yourself: What is the intent of my communication? If you are responding emotionally, stop before pushing the send button and investigate the thinking behind your reaction. Be aware of context. What information do you have that could benefit others? Be mindful of the impact of hierarchies and power issues. Check your assumptions and slow down to understand others before your rush off a quick response that you might regret later.
With the pandemic slowing down, it’s time to recognize the value and benefits of in-person and virtual work, and they each require us to be more mindful of and deliberate in our interactions.
Duncan: What is one thing that we can all do to improve conversations and diminish miscommunication?
Wisner: Fall in love with questions!
