From the show Notes for the original podcast episode with Julie Bjelland, the founder of Sensitive Empowerment, and Willow McIntosh, founder of Inluminance.
(This audio is a brief excerpt.)
HSPs [highly sensitive people] tend to be over-givers and toxic people tend to be over-takers.
This dynamic has been played out for many of us either in our families, friendships, romantic relationships, or even with work colleagues.
More notes:
In healthy relationships, we should feel comfortable to be ourselves and feel good around them, you feel accepted for who you are, they can compromise and be understanding, and you can work through conflicts in healthy ways.
Recognizing Red Flags in Toxic Relationships
They might be very self-absorbed, not attentive, and have a sense of entitlement, and require excessive admiration
They put you down, you don’t feel good about yourself when with them
Monopolize conversations or look down on people.
Ignore your needs
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Not willing to compromise or recognize the needs and feelings of others
Become impatient or angry when they don’t get what they want or receive special treatment
Have significant problems in their relationships and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior… (continued on page for the original episode)
If you are experiencing abuse in your relationship, please reach out for support and visit the national domestic violence hotline that offers free, confidential support and many resources to help too at https://www.thehotline.org/ or Call 1.800.799.SAFE (7233).
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Enjoy the full length original episode “Episode 104: How to Avoid and Heal From Toxic Relationships, with Julie and Willow” – see link on the The HSP Podcast page on Julie Bjelland’s Sensitive Empowerment site, where you can find her many articles, books, courses, Sensitive Community and other resources.
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Also register for free webinar by Julie Bjelland, LMFT: How to Set Healthy Boundaries and Why it’s Essential for Wellness as an HSP.
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This episode is included in article How Can Highly Sensitive People enjoy healthier relationships and deal with toxic people?
Some excerpts of the content:
People with more sensitive personalities “need help with intimacy.” Elaine Aron, PhD
“Highly sensitive people tend to be over-givers and toxic people tend to be over-takers.” Julie Bjelland, LMFT
“You can actually transform your relationship with a narcissist and feel valued, honored and respected.” Rebecca Zung
“Energy vampires are people who suck our energy dry.” Judith Orloff M.D.
“Why do some of the nicest, kindest and most thoughtful of us find ourselves painfully connected to narcissists?” Dr. Debi Silber
The image at top is from the movie ‘Twilight‘ – an example of toxic relationships, according to writer Melissa Girimonte, who describes the romance between vampire Edward (Robert Pattinson) and Bella (Kristen Stewart).
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Transcript for the Creative Mind Audio Podcast episode at top (follow this link to other episodes):
Hi, I’m Julie bjelland, sensitivity expert, psychotherapist and founder of the online Sensitive Empowerment Community.
Willow McIntosh 0:09
I’m Willow McIntosh, founder of Inluminance and leader of the high sensory intelligence movement. We hope you enjoy this episode.
Julie Bjelland 0:27
And today’s topic is how to avoid and heal from toxic relationships. And we are joined by the beautiful Willow McIntosh. Hello, Willow.
Willow McIntosh 0:39
Hey, Julie, so pleased to be here. So excited to be chatting about this important topic today.
Julie Bjelland 0:46
And what a big topic this is. We were just talking before we started some in the community, and I was saying that, you know, this is such a huge topic that I really see this as the beginning of a conversation because we couldn’t possibly cover everything that needs to be covered on this kind of a topic, right?
Willow McIntosh 1:06
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it’s a huge topic for us as HSPs. And I’m so pleased, we’re getting to at least begin the conversation today and hopefully open up a wider conversation as a result.
Julie Bjelland 1:18
Yes, absolutely. And I was saying to that, I mean, I think just about every HSP I’ve ever known has been involved in some kind of toxic relationship.
And just for the purposes of our discussion, I’m kind of thinking of these relationships as being family, friendships, work, and of course, romantic relationships.
And that kind of covers a little bit of the umbrella of what we’re going to be talking about.
And something that I think is so interesting to think about, too, is you know, as HSPs, we do tend to be over givers. And what’s interesting about that is toxic people tend to be overtakers. So that kind of a dynamic can happen in family friendship, romantic relationships, even among colleagues, right?
Willow McIntosh 2:06
Yes, exactly. Right. I think that’s definitely the place to start with this is to recognize that we, as HSPs, we are giving people – we we can see the effect we have, you know, we are people we love to interact, we love to support people.
And yes, you know, we tend to attract for whatever reason that may be and I’m sure we’re going to explore that we tend to attract people that kind of just lock onto us and take our energy, become dependent on our energy, and the relationship then becomes toxic as a result.
Julie Bjelland 2:41
Yeah, it ends up being a really unhealthy dynamic. I’ve been involved in that kind of relationship myself. And I think that so many of us have experienced that.
And also, what’s what’s modeled in our childhood can impact how we view relationships in general, what we perceive as okay, what isn’t, that comes up a lot for people and I really want to encourage people to seek therapy, if they feel like they had a very dysfunctional or abusive relationship with childhood, for example, or in past relationships, because you want to try to break some of those patterns and become aware of them.
And just so everybody knows, I have HSP practitioners directory on my website. And I also before we go too much further, I want to address to, for anybody that might be experiencing abuse in your relationship right now. I really want to encourage you to reach out for support.
There’s a domestic a National Domestic Violence Hotline that offers free confidential support, and they have a lot of resources on that website, you can talk to them 24 hours a day, and you can go to the hotline.org or call one 800 799 safe, which is 7233.
I know this is in the US, but you can actually look at the the hotline.org on the website. And you there’s so much good stuff on that website about recognizing it. It’s important if you are in a dangerous situation, to create a safety plan. This is critical. So I just want to mention this for anybody that might be experiencing that. But we’re going to focus more on toxic relationships for this discussion. Anything you want to add to that Willow,
Willow McIntosh 4:31
Just to say that from personal experience, and also people that I’ve worked with, sometimes when we’re in a toxic relationship that may have been going on for years and years and years, we can be so embedded and so used to it, that we don’t actually realize just how much it’s affecting us on – how toxic it actually is.
So if you’re in a position right now, whether it’s in a family position with your spouse, with any with a friend with anybody and you’re feeling unsafe, you’re feeling unhappy and you can’t Put your finger on why, just by reaching out and getting support, sometimes it can take you out of the situation just by talking to someone and then suddenly you can see, okay, this is actually really unhealthy for me.
So if you’re if you’re getting any inkling or you know, you’re in a situation where you’re just feeling unsafe and not happy, then please do take the step to get support.
Julie Bjelland 5:20
Yeah, there are people who care so deeply about this. So many of the people that work in these fields, have been through it themselves and feel, you know, really want to give support to you and you, we all deserve to be in safe situations.
So I will be posting this in the show notes as well, so that you can easily click on it. And I want to talk a little bit moving on to relationship stages, because this is going to be complicated for people to understand sometimes, and I think this might help a little bit.
So the beginning of a relationship stage is, is we call it the honeymoon stage. And it can last up to six months.
And it is literally like having your brain on drugs. And what I mean by that is, this happens to be a stage where you know, it just feels perfect, you can feel very high on life, it literally is creating chemicals in your brain that make you feel high, this is a real thing.
And the reason why I want to talk about this is because the next stage is called the conflict stage.
This is when things start going bad. And for a lot of HSPs. You know, if we’ve been in, you know, this beautiful honeymoon period with someone, and we fall in love with things feel really great.
And then suddenly conflict starts happening, it can be really confusing. Because most, you know, bad relationships don’t start out bad. A lot of times they start out good. And then moving into a conflict stage is when things start really falling apart.
And this is the stage I really wanted to encourage people to seek therapy, early. individual therapy, couples therapy, really being able to get through this stage and complex stage will help you move into the deeper love stage that comes after that. So what we might be talking about in a lot of scenarios today are probably something you’re experiencing in a conflict stage. Where you think Willow?
Willow McIntosh 7:23
Yes, absolutely right. Isn’t it interesting how we go through these these phases? And you described it beautifully there. Yes, that’s certainly my experience. And I’m sure many listeners right now feel that too.
And I think one of the one of the pieces that I’ve really recognized it’s helped me so much is to Yes, to get support when we get into this conflict phase. But it’s also to get the boundaries in place.
And as much of the structure as we can, even though we’re in this super high, you know, chemical release phase, when we’re in our honeymoon period, it’s actually recognizing that mate, or getting clear about the structure of the relationship of how it’s going to move forward is is so important at the beginning.
So it’s understanding that, okay, these are the kinds of instructions that I have for you about the way I work as a person and vice versa. And, and just having as much open communication as possible to get these things into places as early as possible, you know, these are my nose, these are my yeses, you know, and just really trying to take the time to do that as early as possible.
Julie Bjelland 8:33
Yes, absolutely. This is really the absolute first essential step is doing our own internal work on ourselves. Because when we talk about red flags, I actually think it’s a red flag to enter into a relationship when we ourselves are not healthy and balanced.
This is how many unhealthy relationships begin when we aren’t in in a strong place and being able to define what your values are, what you like you were saying, Well what your knows are.
And to get to know we have to get to know ourselves and what our needs are to even get our needs met by other people and for a lot of HSPs we’re so focused externally on everyone else that we can sometimes enter into friendships, relationships, with in a place where we are not even knowing who we are and what we need.
I certainly did that. And my, you know, many years ago before I did my personal work. And I think it’s also helpful to think about, you know, being able to be comfortable, to be yourself with someone to feel good around them, feel accepted for who you are, and that they can be compromised, that they are able to compromise and be understanding as well.
These are things that you really want to feel in a relationship and I No even for myself, and we’re going to go into some red flags like recognizing red flags and a bit.
But I even done with when I look back on my own history, the toxic relationship that I was in, I entered that in a in a place where I myself was in a broken place. And therefore, when I’m in a broken place, I’m not even going to recognize as many of the red flags as I would if I’m in a strong, healthy place in life. What do you think?
Willow McIntosh 10:30
Yes, 100%? Yes. So that is it is a an immediate red flag, you know, sometimes, yes, if we can sense that we’re not in a healthy, you know, we’re not in a in a strength in a place of personal empowerment ourselves, we’re feeling unsure, then when we’re going into a relationship in that state, then yes, it’s very difficult to try to maintain our own sense of self within that, especially as an HSP, and to make the right decisions and get these boundaries in place.
And one of the other real red flags, I think that’s worth mentioning at this point is that feeling that we have, where we just want to try to please as much as possible in order to feel safe and accepted.
And actually, when we start doing that, we are setting ourselves up for a real pickle later down the line. In other words, if we are just giving and giving and giving and trying to be as nice as we can say yes to everything, because deep down we think, okay, the more I agree, and the more I say yes, then the more I’m going to be liked, therefore, the better the relationships can go, the safer I’m going to feel eventually.
The trouble is, what’s happening in there is we’re not giving clear instructions and not recognizing that we can’t do that for the rest of the relationship. It’s just not possible.
We have to get these structures and boundaries and and record and recognitions that we have key needs in the relationship as early as possible. And that’s then going to create the structure for things to be manageable for us later down the line.
I think it’s when we give everything at the beginning for whatever intention that may be that’s when it really starts to go wrong.
Julie Bjelland 12:11
Yes, I completely agree with you and being able to even like ourselves, because if we don’t like ourselves, how are we expecting other people to like us and I’ve said this many times that we will we will be honored and respected and loved at the same level that we love our and respect and honor ourselves.
Narrator (synthetic voice) 12:33
This material in an excerpt from a longer podcast or video, follow link in description to learn more.
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Douglas Eby (M.A./Psychology) is author of the The Creative Mind series of sites which provide “Information and inspiration to help creative people thrive.”
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